(1)VFD (3) Motors

roxusa

Lifetime Supporting Member
Join Date
Nov 2008
Location
NJ
Posts
994
I have 3 waist High Conveyors in a line that each have a 1.5 HP 460 motor
each has a 140M-C2E Breaker/MOL & a contactor.
Can I put a single VFD before the 3 Breaker/MOL's to control the speed of all 3
adding a breaker before the VFD sized accordingly.
I have seen this setup with a VFD controlling 2 motors before.
Also How would I size the VFD would 5 HP be sufficient or would I need to go to 7.5.
They would like to slow the line down when they are running smaller product
but be able to go faster on big product. I could program 3 preset speeds and give a selector switch without changing any of the OEM controls.
There is only room in the new cabinet for 1 VFD.
Thoughts
 
This seemed like a pretty good write up on that subject. There were a few others that looked pretty good when I hit the Google. I have never run more than two motors at once with a VFD, and in that application both motors were on the same drive shaft.
 
I have 3 waist High Conveyors in a line that each have a 1.5 HP 460 motor
each has a 140M-C2E Breaker/MOL & a contactor.
Can I put a single VFD before the 3 Breaker/MOL's to control the speed of all 3
adding a breaker before the VFD sized accordingly.
I have seen this setup with a VFD controlling 2 motors before.
Also How would I size the VFD would 5 HP be sufficient or would I need to go to 7.5.
They would like to slow the line down when they are running smaller product
but be able to go faster on big product. I could program 3 preset speeds and give a selector switch without changing any of the OEM controls.
There is only room in the new cabinet for 1 VFD.
Thoughts

I've seen where a single VFD is used to control two motors in multiple ways. One the motors were different, and the program would change the vfd parameters to suit each motor when they were selected, but not run both at once. Of course each had their own overload protection and fusing also.


I've also seen it where a single VFD was driving two motors that had oversized fuses. so the VFD could handle both motors, but since the fusing was too large for the motors, they would fry motors with the VFD, since it was sized to be able to run two motors, not once.



If you did this, I would go a little larger than your three loads, and possibly just follow some advice from the manufacturers who make the drive you're going to use.


From Rockwell:
A variable frequency drive (VFD) can be used to control multiple motors in some applications provided the right design considerations are made and appropriate protection is provided for each motor.

This offers several advantages such as lower cost, reduction in panel space and reduced control complexity.

If the application falls within these specific conditions – and each motor can operate at the same speed and can accommodate a VFD as a single point of failure – the next step is to review design considerations and to select the right components. The VFD must be sized properly, and each motor needs protection. The following guidelines are recommended:

Add FLA of all the motors and add 20% (to accommodate lower leakage inductance) to select the VFD size
Set correct current ratings
On some drives it is not recommended to size below 3 hp due to capacitive coupling (cable charging current)
Adding a common mode core and using XLPE cable will help to minimize cable charging current
Drives should be set in V/Hz motor control
It is not recommended to “line start/stop” the motor when the VFD is running
Provide overload protection for the individual motor
In multiple motor applications, NEC §430, part III, requires individual motor overload protection, which is (thermal) overload function, on the load side of a VFD.

This is required because a VFD can only sense its total connected load and cannot sense which individual motor is drawing high current. Therefore it cannot provide appropriate overload protection.

There are many applications that use multiple motors of the same capacity operating in parallel at the same speed. Here is the opportunity to ask:

Can I use one variable frequency drive (VFD) to control these multiple motors?
Does it help to optimize the panel for cost as well as space?
Do I have the right components to help protect individual motors in such a configuration?
Not all types of overload protection devices are suitable for application at the output of a VFD. Due to the PWM voltage pulses and surge impedance of the motor, reflections of the voltage pulses occur at the terminals of the motor. Their amplitude is dependent upon:

System voltage
Voltage rise time of the VFD
Current rating (surge impedance) of the motor protection circuit breaker (MPCB)
Operational voltage
Location of the MPCB and cable type and length between MPCB and motor (surge impedance)
Here are some challenges for overload protection devices at the output of VFDs:

For electronic overload relays, their current sensor technology may not be able to measure the load current and harmonics correctly when operating at frequencies outside their nominal sensing range.
For standard MPCB, their challenges are related to reflection of voltage pulse that cause high dielectric stress on the MPCB magnetic trip coils resulting in accelerated aging.
It is recommended to restrict the cable length between the MPCB and the motor below the maximum permissible (“critical”) cable length at which the reflected voltage phenomena is fully developed.

Using one VFD to control multiple motors, with the right design considerations, helps reduce the cost, footprint and control complexity of your application.
 
you may get away with those described above but keep a few things in mind

suddenly removing the load of a single motor (that's already in overload) from the vfd could damage the output transistors of the vfd.
the overload relay must be rated for use with the output waveform of a vfd. if not it will not properly protect the motor or the vfd.

Most systems that have 2 or more motors on a single vfd shut down the vfd when any of the OL's trip, it is not recommended to disconnect any motor while the vfd is running
 
you may get away with those described above but keep a few things in mindMost systems that have 2 or more motors on a single vfd shut down the vfd when any of the OL's trip, it is not recommended to disconnect any motor while the vfd is running

Roxusa hi. I did a large project with one VFD running as many as 6 motors (air handlers) however they were all fans. The all ran together at the same speed.
As GaryS mentioned, there were overload blocks rated for the motors and VFD use. If one motor tripped, the O/Ls (hardwired) would open the run circuit in the VFD control, kill all the motors, throw an alarm and also feed back to the PLC program and HMI. The drives were Yaskawa 1000s and the O/L blocks were by someone else. Hope this helps.
 
I did it with Fuji drives and 5 sumitomo motors each motor 5 hp drive was 40 hp, we ran wires separately thru conduit to each motor . We had OL for each motor and if one motor trips it will trip the whole thing ,this was hardwired. We had 11 drives and 55 motors AFAIK this line is still working. All motors were equal. Control was done with and SLC 5/05 this was in 1994.
 
I think I will re evaluate where I can mount 3 vfd's and keep it
straight forward. Since this is a new install I will consult with the OEM.
They will be back to finish installing more of their equipment.
Thanks everyone for the input, good read.
 
I did one job a while ago that had 23, 5-8kw motors on one PF700H, the customer would allow up to 3 motors tripping before shutting down the VSD.
This was for the long travel on a ship loader, the VSD was a 500amp unit.

There was also 2 500amp VSD's driving 2 motors running the loading conveyor, the motors were on a common shaft, these 2 drives load shared using droop.

Alan
 
I have put in a single VFD that controlled 4 motors on a coal stacker at a power plant, running ever since without issue.
 
This is done a lot, however, be aware that you must run the vfd in v/hz mode. All motors will receive the same voltage and frequency, however, they will not run at exactly the same speed. You should expect the motors may run slightly different speeds from each other. If that is an issue in your application then you would want to do something else.
 

Similar Topics

How many motors we operate from single drive? I have 4 motors of 1hp, all motors have same function. Is it possible to run all 4 motors from...
Replies
16
Views
5,184
Here is the situation: I want a VFD to control a Fan motor - but I have a redundant fan that should not be used unless I am servicing the main...
Replies
23
Views
8,498
Hey guys , I am involved in a equipment installation process wherein the customer wants me to run multiple motors with a single VFD. I...
Replies
3
Views
2,028
I have been looking at a couple of power tools that have a 220v 3 phase motor. I was wanting to avoid having to install a rotary converter. But I...
Replies
7
Views
2,196
  • Poll
Could anyone guide me as to how we can switchover motor 1 (main) to motor 2 (standby/Aux) without Interruption in Load (Pump maintaining liquid...
Replies
17
Views
5,041
Back
Top Bottom